准备开始当义工

[复制链接]
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-24 23:38:00 [显示全部楼层] 回帖奖励 倒序浏览 阅读模式 309 36217

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-28 00:07:00

是滴,每个目标都是挑战,迷你马很想跟Ranger 玩,我担心Ranger会伤了它

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-28 00:10:00
QUOTE:
以下是引用hppeng在2010/5/27 9:37:00的发言:
>One bite is good enough??

Yes. I give my horse just one Big-Bite-Delight for every click. When I give him a jackpot, it is more than 10X.

Bribe is not a good way to teach a behavior, and it will eventually fail.

To confuse you more, this is another write up talking between "Bribe", Reward", and "Reinforcement".

==========

Bribes tend to happen before the behavior as a way to motivate the
subject to do something.  Rewards tend to happen after the behavior as
mostly a thank you for the action or event.  Neither have a predictable
outcome towards future behavior.  As trainer we should be more
interested in reinforcement and that is something that gives a
predictable increase in future behavior.  


Forgive me for going over basic behavior terms but there are many people
who may have some confusion regarding these terminologies and I don't
have enough information to judge your trainers understanding on the
topic.  In Karen Pryor's book "Don't Shoot the Dog"  she talks
about a zoo situation where an ape was setting in the doorway so the
door could not be closed.  The trainers were putting food outside to get
the ape to move but he would quickly grab the food and get back to
blocking the door.   It was pointed out that the food was being given
before the behavior had occurred as in a bribe so they were not getting
the future outcome they wanted.  Once they waited for the ape to move
then they give him the food it became a reinforcement and they could
then shape the ape to not stay in the doorway.


Rewards and reinforcements tend to be used interchangeable but they do
have different meanings.  Rewards are a more general like presents for a
job or an event well done and they happen after the event that is
getting rewarded so it doesn't necessary have an effect on future
events.  Reinforcements tend to happen at the same time or directly
after the event so it will more likely happen again
. The click in
clicker trainer is used to give better timing so the trainee ties in the
event with the food or other reinforcement given.
  A birthday present
is a reward.  If I give my brother a birthday present it is not going to
increase the likelihood that he will have another birthday. It's only
a thank you for being my brother.


As far as if you are bribing, rewarding or reinforcing the subject it
can be a bit cloudy as to what you are doing but it is how the trainee
sees it that is important.   Years ago I got a $1000 Christmas bonus.  
Because of some cash flow issues the boss gave it in November a month
before Christmas.  Because it was before Christmas does it make it a
bribe?  Was he rewarding me for the last years sales with this thank you
bonus?  Sales the next year did increase so it might have been a
reinforcement that caused me to do even better the next year.   To make
things even more confusing I might have thought it was a punishment
because 3 other managers also got the same bonus but I was in charge of
more of the store and employs then the other 3 put together.  You never
know how something might get intrepid.  


Bribes, rewards and reinforcement are all tools that we can use in
training.   As far as what is better it depends on the situation and how
we use them.

我真的服了你婆口苦心,学习骑马怕走弯路,原来调教也有这么多的误区,Jose 只是想找只白老鼠试验下,过过训马的瘾,就是瞎玩,要是这匹迷你马可以骑乘,我早已跨上享受骑乘之乐了,正如Karen Pryor 在书中讲的:“ people don't really want to know how to change their own behavior”.

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-28 00:12:00
今天教它明白就餐礼仪,很容易,没有挑战性,不到5分钟就教搞定,不过很快它又忘记了,

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-28 00:25:00

也试了不用牵马索它也可以跟随

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/qKiA18BPWWc/

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-28 00:28:00
回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-28 03:36:00

小马的狗窝

小马的狗窝

小马的狗窝

小马的狗窝

小马的狗窝

小马的狗窝

小马的狗窝

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-28 09:09:00

>>2. No escalation of pressure needed. I do not think you're "putting pressure" on him. Just a reminder.

给小马打圈,如果没有施加压力,它只会快步小跑,很难要求它跑起来,怎么解决?

回复

使用道具 举报

66

主题

437

回帖

1万

积分

荣誉版主

积分
12326

版主勋章小马勋章

hppeng 发表于 2010-5-28 11:34:00

Jose,

>如果没有施加压力,它只会快步小跑,很难要求它跑起来,怎么解决?

A quick answer is "Mimicking".

Here's the long description. Organisms learn through 3 major ways: Shaping, Mimicking, and Modeling (You can find this in Karen Pryor's Book). Some animals are good in "Mimicking" while others are not. Horses are good at "mimicking".

So to ask your horse to "canter without escalation of pressure", you can "canter" yourself and the horse, if it has a very good relationship with you, will try to mimic you cantering. At that moment, you c/t.

I tried this and it is not very easy. Basically you need to have a very very strong bond with your horse, and your horse needs to have some experience mimicking your behavior (like walking with the leg crossed, or lying down...). My horse is not at that level but I've seen clicker trained horse cantering by mimicking the trainer's behavior. THAT trainer's behavior eventually becomes the cue for cantering.

Check this:

href="http://www.youtube.com/user/hestenemine#p/u/u-all/2/HCQ5yTjCFCA" method is also "shaping" with a controlled environment. I once tried to bring my horse to the bottom of the hill. I started running uphill and my horse followed me, cantering. I c/t. I was hoping to teach him canter with me but in the end I did not follow through. It is too much work (tiring).

HP


回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-28 23:24:00

谢谢H版,学习中。今天开始学习长韁训练, 没想到小马比你的纯血马还高,请看它的调教级别是否高过你的马

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-28 23:30:00

Ranger 学习用餐礼仪

今天还教会了Ranger用餐礼仪

回复

使用道具 举报

66

主题

437

回帖

1万

积分

荣誉版主

积分
12326

版主勋章小马勋章

hppeng 发表于 2010-5-29 00:13:00

>没想到小马比你的纯血马还高,请看它的调教级别是否高过你的马

My thoroughbred is too spooky. I have to spend a lot of time to calm him down.

Try to teach your Mini some lateral movement with long reining. It is fun.

回复

使用道具 举报

66

主题

437

回帖

1万

积分

荣誉版主

积分
12326

版主勋章小马勋章

hppeng 发表于 2010-5-29 00:18:00

>Ranger用餐礼仪

One comment:

Try to reduce the possibility that Ranger touches you first then touches the cone. We do not want him to learn this 用餐礼仪 as a "chain". We want him to be quiet, not to "touch you" first then "touch the target".

Next time when he touches you, you walk away. Give him a short time out. He'll understand that touching you takes away the reward.

Isn't it fun to see animals "seek the right answer" for the reward/reinforcement?

HP

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-30 07:42:00
QUOTE:
以下是引用hppeng在2010/5/29 0:13:00的发言:

>没想到小马比你的纯血马还高,请看它的调教级别是否高过你的马

My thoroughbred is too spooky. I have to spend a lot of time to calm him down.

Try to teach your Mini some lateral movement with long reining. It is fun.

回H版,Jose这几天只感觉一个字,累,被迷你拖着暴走,真累,要是那天能训练出骑着Ranger,长韁操控迷你马,那才是超Fun, 不知H版有什么绝招帮我实现这个奢望,哈哈

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-30 07:45:00
QUOTE:
以下是引用hppeng在2010/5/29 0:18:00的发言:

>Ranger用餐礼仪

One comment:

Try to reduce the possibility that Ranger touches you first then touches the cone. We do not want him to learn this 用餐礼仪 as a "chain". We want him to be quiet, not to "touch you" first then "touch the target".

Next time when he touches you, you walk away. Give him a short time out. He'll understand that touching you takes away the reward.

Isn't it fun to see animals "seek the right answer" for the reward/reinforcement?

HP

今天又有几本响片训练的书到手,我这个视频,书上说是叫(BRIDGE-CONDITIONING)

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-31 00:55:00

马场主教我学开车

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-31 01:03:00

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

准备开始当义工

回复

使用道具 举报

66

主题

437

回帖

1万

积分

荣誉版主

积分
12326

版主勋章小马勋章

hppeng 发表于 2010-5-31 04:48:00
>BRIDGE-CONDITIONING

What is this?

HP
回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-31 07:29:00
QUOTE:
以下是引用hppeng在2010/5/31 4:48:00的发言:
>BRIDGE-CONDITIONING

What is this?

HP

我现在正在看Shawna 跟她老公Vinton Karrasch's book "YOU CAN TRAIN YOUR HORSE TO DO ANYTHING".
不知跟你讲过的Bridged Signal 是否是一回事,我把原文抄下请你看看,

回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-31 07:30:00
First,george(马名) is focusing only on the food in my side bucket that I'm covering with my hand. as soon  as he turns away, I tell him he's made the correct choice by clicking and then reinforcing this signal with some food. This is called bridge-conditioning
回复

使用道具 举报

704

主题

4255

回帖

5万

积分

超级大马疯

积分
50840
JOSE 发表于 2010-5-31 07:32:00
还有Shawna 提到的Target Training,可以教马跟着Target走,不用牵马索的哦,我准备试下,你的马现在跟你走还需要Target吗?
回复

使用道具 举报

您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 立即注册

本版积分规则

马术网微信服务号
微信服务号
马术网微信订阅号
微信订阅号
意见
反馈